Uploading “Illegal” Content
I’ve noticed a thread in my last post about “policing” content, so thought I would spin out a seperate post on this as I’m bored waiting for the site to go live and this is an important issue !
The best way to ensure that the game content is “acceptable” is to always use “safe mode”. I realise this means you can’t use extensions and there are other restrictions, but over time these will be the games that our users (remember these are new people , not the existing GMC) will come to accept as the safest games to play.
We’re making some adjustments to the site and subtle changes to GM7 that will support the use of safe mode more than ever and you’ll see these before the summer holiday season ! (for those if you in the southern hemisphere …you’ll see them before winter sets in 
)
This is NOT to say that you shouldn’t use extensions etc, and there will still be great games written that are not able to run in safe mode…but until we make some longer term changes to GM, then safe mode is your best bet to easily get higher rankings and more downloads if that is your highest priority.
Re screening games…we can only do this automatically for a bunch of reasons and we’re screening as much as we can to make sure nobody can post harmful content on the site. I obviously can’t tell you exactly what we’re doing as that would breach the security
April 21st, 2007 at 09:06 am
when the site goes up in the gamemaker creations part (i saw a screenshot on the GMC very cool) will you be able to have “mirrors” so you could host a normal exe with everything and a safe mode one? for all those who are suspicious of the game… and is the site getting set up now as it is just the front page without links and the links are down (not asking for a date just wondering if thats whats going on)
~32
April 21st, 2007 at 10:24 am
cool idea
hope we’ll see that happen soon 
April 21st, 2007 at 01:45 pm
Safe mode? Is this a GM feature?
April 21st, 2007 at 02:02 pm
Yes, but I always thought it would require the source…
April 21st, 2007 at 02:44 pm
Wait, does that mean we will ONLY be able to upload safe mode games?
April 21st, 2007 at 03:34 pm
There is no such thing as a safe mode exe. Safemode refers to an option in Game Maker that once enabled, will restrict the game from using certain functions such as registry, binary, and dll functions and more. This is to help protect your system from possible harm.
April 21st, 2007 at 04:00 pm
And to confuse you even more; it’s actually called secure mode :O.
Btw, do you have an answer on what is up with http://yoyogames.com ?
Just wondering…
April 21st, 2007 at 05:52 pm
To confuse you even MORE, it’s really called debug mode…I think.
But can’t you only go into debug mode for a gamemaker file? Executables can’t be run in debug mode, right?
April 21st, 2007 at 05:57 pm
No, debug mode and safe/secure mode are entirely separate things. Debug gives you easy access to information about the game, safe/secure prevents the game from doing harmful things.
It’s quite reasonable that games distributed from an official source should have to be safety-checked. I have to admit there are times I’ve wished there was an official safety-checker on the GMC!
As for what’s up with yoyogames.com mark posted about it on the GMC.
April 21st, 2007 at 06:06 pm
Secure modes a bit of a no can do for me. I like using dlls for mod music too much.
April 21st, 2007 at 06:36 pm
You mean that we cannot upload games that do not run in secure mode? All of my good games either write to text files (for level editor, saved games, settings) or the registry (for settings).
Oh, there is one function that you can use in secure mode called “keyboard_key_press();” I think that function should not be allowed in secure mode, as it works outside of the game window - you can press the windows key, then press “hot-keys” to do things in the start menu, etc.
-d41
April 21st, 2007 at 06:43 pm
@HP:
I saw his post after I posted.
Can we post pictures here?
April 21st, 2007 at 06:45 pm
[img]http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/859/securemodeyb9.png[/img]
^BBcode
^HTML
April 21st, 2007 at 06:46 pm
I take that as a ‘no’…
April 21st, 2007 at 06:53 pm
I would guess that over time they might come up with a method for members to submit games for individual screening if they couldn’t pass the safemode test. This is just a guess, I don’t work for YoYo. It would make sense, though, since I’m sure they’d want things like mod music to be possible eventually.
If I were in charge I’d probably design a system so that people had to submit a safe game and get at least (some amount of positive feedback) in order to be allowed to submit games for manual checking. And obviously manual checking would take a lot longer.
But again, that’s just my theorising.
April 21st, 2007 at 08:09 pm
In that case I’m confuzzled. How do you put a game into secure mode?
April 21st, 2007 at 08:25 pm
HMMM!
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/859/securemodeyb9.png
April 21st, 2007 at 09:35 pm
Safe mode is a really annoying feature built into GM, that just restricts you from doing a bunch of things.
Debug mode is when you hit F6 instead of F5. (Or hit the red play button instead of the green one) It runs your exe normally, but has a debug menu open with it where you can control things to test your games. One nice feature is you can enter your own code snippets into the game.
April 21st, 2007 at 11:14 pm
Oh right, I forgot there was a preferences AND a game settings…oops.
April 22nd, 2007 at 12:16 am
How would YoYo Games know if the program is in secure mode if someone creates an application (EXE) and submits it to the YoYo Games server? Would YoYo have to modify game maker a little so that they can check the stand alone for unsafe content? Or will YoYo make everyone provide a source in order for your games to be published? …
April 22nd, 2007 at 03:06 am
This is a step in the WRONG direction Sandy, again. You cannot restrict users from uploading complex games that make use of registry, DLL, binary and other complex functions that are part of GM itself. The best SAFETY feature you can implament is an option to certify your game as “SAFE” in by not completly restricting use of read/write, registry, etc, but restricting deleting content from system folders (windows), system registry, etc….. What the hell is the purpose of GM7’s extensions and addons if you will restrict people from using it, it makes absolutely no bloody sense to restrict these - it will create a general distrust - Best method is to appoint some mods/admins to check the source code and certify it as safe. I may be a victim of some prat on GMC who embedded malicious code in their game, but luckily I have backups of my applications and registry and even after this I would think it would be unfair to advanced game developers. There are some very cool GM based APPLICATIONS you could develop that makes use of reading / writing files and registry without being harmful - You could set some strict rules that the IP is logged with your upload and that anybody found uploading illegal content will be BANNED from YoYogames and not allowed uploading, and then post the member’s IP and warn their ISP
Don’t punish honest game developers !
April 22nd, 2007 at 03:21 am
Saying certain things can’t be posted on the new YYG site isn’t the same as saying you can’t MAKE them.
The GMC always disallowed certain kinds of projects even if they weren’t harmful or illegal in any way. That didn’t mean people couldn’t make their silly subOS things, just that they couldn’t share them on the GMC. YYG has a bigger liability issue if someone posts something harmful because they are hosting and publishing the content. And it’s REALLY not possible to have someone hand-check every single entry.
I expect that once they have the automatic system working they will, as I said, implement some sort of manual screening process for the much smaller percentage of games that need a wider range of features… or perhaps they’ll just go into a “Non Verified Games” area, flagged as potentially dangerous, download-at-your-own-risk (so that you would only download if you trusted the creator).
Advanced game developers will probably have their own personal sites to feature their works on anyway!
April 22nd, 2007 at 04:15 am
This is a step in the WRONG direction Sandy, again. You cannot restrict users from uploading complex games that make use of registry, DLL, binary and other complex functions that are part of GM itself.
But you’re [b]not forced[/b] to make games in safe/secure mode.
April 22nd, 2007 at 04:16 am
I thought those tags worked on this...
April 22nd, 2007 at 04:30 am
Yes he said the upload/Publish function will be restricted to only secure/safemode games. - Maybe Sandy can appoint some of the mods from GMC to test the games, you know the mods who spend their times closing threads, maybe they can do something useful
April 22nd, 2007 at 06:45 am
Upload or publish games that work in secure mode only? HA! That’s a good one. I’ll just continue to use 64Digits to host my games.
I don’t blame you for wanting security though…
This is really quite a touchy issue, isn’t it?
April 22nd, 2007 at 07:13 am
Sorry Greg24, but Sandy did not say that games would require safe mode. He suggested that if you want to boost your game’s acceptance by users that you use that. The other posters took it farther and said that only safemode content should be allowed. The “subtle changes” that will support safemode are, I believe, a system to tell the website users whether or not your game is using safemode or possibly to check if it has registry editing functions or the like to allow users to decide if they will trust the software or not.
April 22nd, 2007 at 09:19 am
Here’s how I imagined it would work:
Users can upload either safe/secure games or normal games. Safe games would have a special status icon (e.g. a green tick) to show they are safe to play. Normal games would have a question mark icon to show that there may be a risk.
When you attempt to download a normal game it should display a mild warning (that could be disabled in user preferences) and perhaps a checkbox where you agree not to hold YoYo Games responsible. The “unknown risk” status for normal games could be changed by user voting or a moderator. Once a certain number of users have voted the game as “Safe” simply change the status.
April 22nd, 2007 at 09:26 am
@J-Factor …That sound about right
Ok, is there a document that tells you what you can and can’t do or is it just to do with exterior functions?
April 22nd, 2007 at 09:33 am
Never mind my last post:).
secure_mode - Run games in secure mode. If checked, any game created with Game Maker that runs on your machine will not be allowed to execute external programs or change or delete files at a place different from the game location. (This is a safeguard against Trojan horses although success is not guaranteed.) Checking this means that games that utilizes external files etc. won’t be running correctly. The setting only works while Game Maker is running. So if you run the game independently of Game Maker, for example as an executable stand-alone, it is NOT run in secure mode.
April 22nd, 2007 at 09:52 am
@J-Factor:
Everytime one will download a game from YYG they will meet a long text and have to click ‘I agree’ before they can start downloading.
Let’s sum this up:
1. Game Maker games can not run in secure mode when the exe is compiled. They can only if they are executed from Game Maker (green/red arrow).
2. YYG will test games, maybe not on upload but still, and if they find something suspicious they will either block/delete the download/entry or ask for the source until they have sorted it out.
Why are we all making something big out of this. We never had any [big] problems on the GMC. The mods checks nearly any game, and we have some nice members who actually reports instead of spamming/flooding/flame the topics.
Any (legal) game should be allowed to be posted — no matter how bad it is. Bad games normally get deserted after some time… unless “n00bs” start flaming and making weird discussions.
The “risk-o-meter” is actually a good idea. We can have a (mod-)team that evaluates the games and give them a mark; green for safe, yellow for unsure/questionable material, and red for malicious/dangerous content (and a download block).
But keep in mind that there will be lots of games, especially in the start where everyone want to post their [old] games. So, when the YYG is released for the public don’t expect it all to work out… we have tried it already :P.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:27 am
“1. Game Maker games can not run in secure mode when the exe is compiled. They can only if they are executed from Game Maker (green/red arrow).”
This is not true, as long as the GM editor is open and secure mode is enabled. All games will be ran in secure mode regardless of if GM launches it, or you launch it.
But Daniel-Dane does make a very good point. We’ve had very little problems in the past and members do report harmful games.
April 22nd, 2007 at 11:30 am
So you say that the game can act differently if Game Maker is installed (as in read the registry for “rules” on how to run, eg secure mode). Wow…
April 22nd, 2007 at 01:08 pm
All…I have made myself difficult to understand ….nothing has changed…you CAN upload ANY games written in GM 7 or earlier….I’m jsut saying that secure mode is better.
April 22nd, 2007 at 01:10 pm
J-Factor….very good suggestion….it won’t be in the first public beta but I’ll see if we can get this into a later release ….
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Yeah, that’d be a good idea.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:39 pm
HELP how do you download the new gamemaker 7 and could you set a realese date but have itabout a 2 weeks ahead of what you think you release it so i do not have to keep on checking everyday
April 23rd, 2007 at 01:59 am
“J-Factor… very good suggestion…”
You don’t want to guess how overly paranoid novice users are when it comes to viruses. Some even feel scared of opening a JPEG because they think it can contain a virus, but even intermediate users know that JPEGs are completely safe and viruses cannot hide or execute in that format.
I think there should be a slightly more precise system than the one mentioned by J-Factor. If a yellow question mark is placed beside every game without secure mode on, it actually conveys a message that it IS dangerous by psychological means. It aesthetically repels.
New games should have a blue dash or no symbol at all. Games hosted for about a week or a month without member/moderator complaint can be labeled with a green tick. Games in secure mode or are known to be safe can be labeled by an additional golden lock beside the green tick. Games that has been proven to be virus-free by member/moderator input AND has gained enough positive reputation can be labeled by a green tick with a golden star, and should be featured on the YoYo network main page. Games with a few known complaints should be the ones labeled with the yellow question mark, and those with many complaints should be labeled with a red stop sign and brought to administrative attention.
PS: Sandy, I suggest that you should consult Mark, GMC moderators, and reputable users for past experience on how things worked before. Some things just don’t work out the same way in theory compared to the way it actually happens. I think Daniel-Dane and Chronic has a lot to say when it comes to some apparent misconceptions you have about how GM and/or the GMC works.
April 23rd, 2007 at 02:53 am
“Safe games would have a special status icon (e.g. a green tick) to show they are safe to play.”
“J-Factor….very good suggestion….it won’t be in the first public beta but I’ll see if we can get this into a later release ….”
Not really.
Under no circumstances should YoYo Games endorse any user provided content as being “safe to play”
Identify games that authors claim to be playable in secure mode as exactly that, “Playable in secure mode”.
As soon as a game is identified as being safe, people will NOT take the extra precaution of running GM and checking “Run games in secure mode…”
Given the nature of how secure mode works , this can be especially dangerous. Secure mode violations are triggered when the offending statement is executed, not at load time. A Trojan with statements that violate secure mode code happily run in secure mode completely undetected. Then upon some trigger, execute the malicious code.
Users should be responsible for the programs they choose to run, precautious users can run in secure mode. YoYo games can save these people time and effort by letting them know what programs claim to run in secure mode.
But as pointed out, the moment YoYo Games implies a program is safe, is the moment people don’t take advantage of safe mode, that’s when the trouble starts.
April 23rd, 2007 at 03:48 am
@Caleb
“HELP how do you download the new gamemaker 7 and could you set a realese date but have itabout a 2 weeks ahead of what you think you release it so i do not have to keep on checking everyday”
For some reason there are no downloads on the YoYo Games site, I wonder when they will fix it so others can download gm7 from the official site. But you can also download Game Maker 7 from this link below
https://s3.amazonaws.com/GameMaker/gmaker.exe
It is ensured safe by:
http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/Game-Maker-Download-18870.html
April 23rd, 2007 at 04:55 am
So you’re willing to sacrifice quality content for good ratings? As pathetic and inhibiting as that sounds, I’m sure it serves some purpose.
April 23rd, 2007 at 07:58 am
Well, this sounds like one of those things that people will ignore.
April 23rd, 2007 at 07:59 am
Will there be any public/staff ratings system?
April 23rd, 2007 at 08:54 am
T-bird you are missing the point - Creating a BIAS and falsely educating people that non secure games can be bad is not the way to go - you will set some paranoia and people who make such programs will not get any downloads from people. Restricting registry does not mean your games are SECURE - there are many clever ways to make compiled EXE that render your windows useless or at least causes enough damage for you to re-install the bloody OS. It\’s funny but how come I never so much problems on the mediachance and neobook forums, 2 software programs that allow you reigstry and file functionality, yet I never heard of any problems………PROBLEM with GM is that it is ridden with evil kids - setting restrictive rules will punish people who want to use GM to make apps that use the registry and file system. The only TRUE solution to this is restricting Game Maker\’s access to system registry and windows files, critical areas that can screw up your OS.
April 23rd, 2007 at 09:17 am
Going from what Greg24 said.
Is it necessary for Game Maker to have access to system registry and Windows files then?
April 23rd, 2007 at 09:59 am
Sounds like a good idea, whilst your on this subject Sandy, could you please post some more information regarding the categorizing of games / products.
What I’m referring to mainly is a freeware / shareware / commerical category.
Will Yoyo games only be accepting freeware submissions or will I be able (as a professional developer) to use the site to advertise / promote my creations for my own commercial gain?
Regards
Jon…
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Sandy,
Can you please confirm Yoyo’s position regarding games uploaded to the site?
Will they be freeware only, or will there be room for shareware / full commerical titles, as a professional developer I’d like to expose my product to as possible.
If all content is to be free, will I be allowed to release demo versions containing links to the games homepage?
Jon…
April 23rd, 2007 at 05:06 pm
Techdojo, Initially all games will be uploaded for free and downloadable only for free. We have a PLAN to take the best games and help to sell them but ONLY with the consent of the author and we will share revenues IF we do this. This is only a PLAN…it might bever happen.
I note this is a sensitive point cos the current EULA and T’s and C’s suggest we can do that WITHOUT your permission…which is of course NOT our intention and we are changing the T’s and C’s to make this clearer.
If you want to use YoYo to PREVIEW a game that is available for sale eslewhere then I would be delighted if you submitted a demo version with limited fucntionality. You can embed links to other sites in your profile.
April 23rd, 2007 at 05:30 pm
I don’t like it that games that don’t work in secure mode will automatically get a lower rating. That’s just redicoulous. Just display a warning before downloading that the game possibly isn’t safe, or even better, just display a “This game is safe!” label at safe games. But games that don’t work in secure mode shouldn’t be discriminated in the rating system.
April 23rd, 2007 at 07:12 pm
I have completely lost track — help me :P. Game Maker executables can not be sat to secure mode by itself, only Game Maker can do that but it has to be open while you open the exe. That is what I have heard.
The whole idea with safe/not-safe marks is kind of bad. If the material is bad, remove it. Otherwise don’t make difference… only on the content :P.
April 24th, 2007 at 03:31 am
Let’s not all confuse Daniel-Dane all at once
Daniel, if you put a penny in a jar every time you lost track, I bet you would be rich 
April 24th, 2007 at 03:45 am
Whatever you do, please don’t make it so we have to give the source to anyone. I wouldn’t want anyone seeing my code. (And all my ugly D&D for my older games :P)
April 24th, 2007 at 09:20 am
Thanks for clearing that up Sandy.
Good luck with the launch
April 25th, 2007 at 09:08 am
What about if other users could mark a game “safe” or “not safe”. That would be heaps better then an instant green tick.
April 25th, 2007 at 09:52 pm
Now, this is a really BAD idea. So one of the new features of GM which Mark is most proud of, THE EXTENSION MECHANISM is said by Yoyogames that should not be used by developers in their games. Then what was the point of doing it in the first place and telling us how wonderful it is? Will there really be a site to download new extensions in the new site like it´s been said or will they just be labelled as insecure and be ignored?
Also I agree with people like Wolverine, even without the extension system I find DLLs one of the most useful features of GM and that help increase game quality, however they are not recommended?
You should really think about all this again…
April 26th, 2007 at 02:33 pm
Who said that?
April 26th, 2007 at 03:57 pm
I understand you are refering tot he extensions site? It is one of the new things the site will have, or at least it was. GM7 even has an option to download extension packages from Yoyo´s site.